Mm, yeah. It's one of these things that is designed to work perfectly and sexily with one page, but they didn't take into mind the requirements of other pages.

complete vb told me he generally outsourced the coding to someone else and the guy he generally outsourced to wasn't available. I use ForumMonkeys.com for all of my coding and he always does great work. i'll let him comment on the errors etc himself

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FTA Files -- Free to Air Satellite Helper Forum

Bush Says Drill, Drill, Drill — and Oil Drops $9...

It makes me sick that I was dragged into this. I saw this post yesterday and intended on letting it dissipate in the stratosphere with a dozen other tarty gases, but here I am. lafsunlmtd pointed me to this thread so now I am forced to clear my name and sully another one.

I am on at least decent terms with most guys in the business, from coders, to designers, to business owners, including my competitors. Two of my competitors, who can chime in if they feel like it (I know they troll around here from time to time), tried supplementing their projects with Gary's elite coding skills (sarcasm) and quickly dumped him, as I did, because:

a) he does not code proper XHTML. Nested table nightmares is his standard faire.

b) he does not have the skills to code a tableless skin of even moderate complexity. I speak from the experience of someone who has both hired him and also has seen, through my relationships with others in the business, his other skins. He codes like I did four years ago.

A friend, the one mentioned who does CompleteVB's coding, and I were actually having a laugh at a skin that Gary coded just yesterday because it was just so... dumb. Like, for example, removing all the $spacer_open and $spacer_close variables from the templates instead of just clearing out those templates. The same gentleman actually runs his own business and, like me, plans on redoing the couple of skins we hired Gary to do because they are just plain poorly coded.

Now, on to the skin.

As Gary is well aware, we are often not paid to style every page. This skin was very complex to code; in fact I would like to challenge anyone to find a forum design more difficult to code for vBulletin in valid, tableless XHTML, which the vast majority of the skin is coded in. Due to the design, vBulletin doesn't inherit the CSS so gracefully, and it is clearly necessary to style every template because of this. This proves a problem when vBulletin releases updates, because every customized template does NOT get updated automatically, which means every time there's even a minor release, the owner of AF has to throw a little extra money away for every customized template. For this reason, I "lazily" suggested not styling every last template, a decision I stand by and the owner of AF stands by until I hear otherwise.

Lastly, and most importantly, the original style was 100% valid and tested in all major browsers. Any errors you see are caused by plugins or one of the other developers who work on this site. I have the original to prove it.

I said Good Day Sah!

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That's how I was taught to code. Funnily enough, by CompletevB's own skinner.

The work of mine that you have seen and owned is now quite outdated. I'd been skinning vB a matter of months when those skins were coded.

I don't code skins in tables because I'm incapable of coding tableless. Infact, my tableless coding abilities are impeccable.
Regardless, I now code skins tableless.

What I was referring to in my original post is how badly thought out the coding is.
How long would it have taken to put padding on the forum tree? For example.
Connor is spot on with the point I was trying to make.

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» For Hire: vBulletin Skin Coding
» TalkHXC - Hardcore Music Forums

Well this got ugly fast.

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Camaro Forums || Firebird Forums
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There is always someone faster, and in your case, that someone is Me

I am glad to hear you learned how to code impeccable XHTML. Good job.

As for your other excuses, they don't float even if they were true.

I guess my point is, Gary, that it's easy to criticize other people's work, especially when you have a single, and very limited perspective. If we keep arguing we're only going to look like fools, if we don't already, so I officially bow out of this thread.

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I'm glad you're doing so on your own ForumMonkeys, everyone else, take it outside.

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