John - what part of NC are you in? I am in the Triangle area. small world!

- - -

Back on topic - I am not saying phpbb or VB or SMF or MyBB or Classic, or anyone else for that matter is better or worse. That is not for me to say. This thread is about Ultra software. I searched this forum and could not find an existing thread about the software so I started one, thats all, lol.

Personally I have owned phpbb2 (and currently phpbb3) forums. I have owned many wowbb forums (still do but all being converted to Ultra). I have had experience with VB forums (as an admin and member). If I want to talk about those softwares... I post about them in threads for those softwares, not here, lol.

As I originally posted when I started this thread. I looked at all of the available software out there for a new forum I am launching that will be part of a bigger website. I made my decisions based on my actual usage and need. Were there other softwares out there that had a few other features, sure, but I found the main features that I was going to be using on a regular basis to be pretty close. Most importantly for me, I liked the way everything worked with Ultra. Just my opinion.

From a member's standpoint - The reality is that 99.9% of the normal members just don't care what forum software you are running as long as it works, looks good within the topic theme of your site, and has no ongoing problems. If they like the forum topic they join and start participating (hopefully!!!).

From my personal admin standpoint - I found Ultra to fit my current needs both with the ability to customize or make changes. Again I have forums currently using the other forum softwares so I had/have experience using the others positively and I liked the fact that with Ultra, the few things that might come are addressed directly with the programs main designer and I actually get a response. Also, since I had a lot of previous experience coding and customizing standard wowbb forums, I feel VERY comfortable working on the enhanced Ultra code if I desired.
Price - no one likes talking about this, but the reality is that Ultra was less money then some of the other paid software out there. Bottom line is that I am not a filthy rich man (wish I was, lol), and saving the money to get an a high quality forum product that was fully customizable was important to me.
I am going to go back to setting up my new board, which is way more important then anything else (to me).

__________________
The Biggest Boards | Political Disgust | JAMOOZA

WowUltra version 1.15 was geared towards the admins this time around. Just from reading on the WowBB board there were a lot of things that admins wanted to see for their boards and some things they wanted to just plain "work"

The list of features included in the new version:

1. Admin selectable side columns and menu positions. There will be 8 different choices of menu layouts in the admin panel.
this was added in because a lot of our customers wanted their boards customized to have side menus, which was fine but it was taking away from the development of the software

2. Sub forums now display last post in right column if there are posts newer than in the parent forum.
the whole subforum routine was reworked ENTIRELY for the new version, which includes giving it its own tab in the admin panel. Not only did we get it to show the last post in the front page, we have given the admins the ability to decide how they want their subforums to show (read further down)

3. User activation routine shows unactivated users and gives options to activate, delete or move to another group (which automatically activates them).
this was a mod Jim created for wowbb but we incorporated it into Ultra as well since admins were always asking "how do we activate unactivate dmembers?". Rather than have them risk doing damage to their board by running an SQL query, it was easier to make the mod.

4. Admin can pre register users without having to use the CAPTCHA.

5. Unactivated members will not show birthdays on the calendar.

6. Ordinal post numbering system.

7. Admin can jump to edit profile from view profile.

8. Users can delete their attachments in custom profile fields.
9. Admins can delete or upload custom profile attachments when editing profile without becoming user.
One of the things that didnt "work" on the wowbb board was the ability to delete attachments if an admin created a custom profile field that allowed attachments. That has been fixed in the newest version of WowUltra

10. Users of WowUltra 1.13 or 1.14 BETA can easily update their database to 1.15 after uploading the base files by simply clicking save in the forums tab OR the new subforums tab.

11. Forum jumper fed by forum permissions.

12. Much better but not perfect HTML 4.01 validation. Board will look very similar in IE, Firefox, Opera, Safari.

13. Email on new registration to board e-mail showing registree username.

14. Default tab in admin is general settings now.

15. Admins will see an admin panel link in menu area on top menu views, in side menu views it is the first link in the menu.

16. User signature shows in their profile instead of the BB code.

17. Subforums pull no queries on index, and the Admin controls for subs pull less queries.
WowUltra 1.15 is the leanest version yet. Since the subforum routine has been reworked, the software pulls less queries than it used to. We all know how that works, especially from a hosting standpoint....you have a popular board with no less than 20 members at a time, each member pulling anywhere between 60 -80 queries upon hitting the index page, its bound to clog up the server

18. Admins can have an announcement or advertisement block under the header area with a different message for guests than logged in users. HTML is allowed in these blocks, all from the admin panel.
VERY popular feature amongst our customers

19. The ability to have subs vertical or horizontal selectable as admin.

20. Individual sub elements (icon, description, stats) can be turned on or off in the admin panel.

21. Custom side box editor in admin panel with the menu layout options. Common for all themes.

I have two WowUltras and they're great. Not much to add to what's been said, but if you're looking for a good forum check it out.

Well, let's see....

TvDinner, Diana, Liz...ya'll are all the moderators from WowUltra, surprised Marty and Mat haven't posted here yet, unless that's sleepyjohn...and for that matter, some of your moderators over at wowultra also moderate at WowBB's support forums.....which is ABISMAL for customer support! A...B....Y....S...M...A...L!!!!!

They're rude, insulting, child-like in their reactive manners, and all but ignore any requests for support! Don't believe me? i've got tons of screen captures proving it.

These are all products initially created by Aycan Gulez, who either lives in Turkey or Columbus, OH. He also owned Wow Web Designs, and if you take a look over there, those forums have been long long abandoned, as I suppose will eventually be the case for all the products they migrate (upgrade versions) around.

These guys Liz, Diana, & TVDinner go around the web talking up their new products, pretending to be satisfied clients, which they may be, but they also have vested interests, they're also employed with wow.

TVDinner posted here:
WOWbb

and here:
WowUltra - Admin Zone Forums



Meanwhile, they leave their "old" ones (i.e. wowbb.com) high-n-dry. See for yourself:

WowBB Assistance - WowBB - WowBB Forums

Oh, and here's the support forum for ultra, which one of these days will be as abandoned as wowbb:

Troubleshooting - WowUltra - WowUltra Forums

Oh, and the "wow" folks also own Data 1 Systems for hosting in case you wanna know who else to avoid:

Data 1 Systems

I got more if you want.

If they'll do it once, they'll do it again. I wouldn't trust anything associated with "wow" EVER!

And I'm not talking about complicated issues their customers have issues with- though they exist too. I'm talking about simple everyday sane requests for help, from individuals who own businesses dependant on their product, that go months without response in their "private support" forum for which each client has their own, which eventually spill over into their public support forums! And when their customers get upset and verbalize this in their forums, they have the audacity to be reactive and mean. They delete most of those posts, but some you can still see.

Seriously, this whole wow business is anything but "wow".

And WowUltra they would like you to believe is different, an entirely new beast, but it isn't. It's them dumping an old product and for a new "version" on a new site so they don't have to upgrade and deal with old version issues/migrations.

Everything here I've stated is my personal opinion, though I've done many hours of research to formulate all this. It happens when you have a website with a company who ignores you. I'm not the only one, and I'm sure i won't be the last. Google them and see, but you gotta dig, because wowbb or wowultra is at the bottom of every page by them, so the first gazillion sites are all their own branded ones. Makes for impossible unbiased research results initially.


Other wow-personell may come defend their product, swear the two products aren't related, or justify treating so many customers like crap, or they may even claim to be a "client", but try to rmember, you're looking into forum software- these guys KNOW forums.

That's what I, an intelligent educated resourceful person who's been with (bow-)wow for years, see happening and have been witnessing for months!

...and yes, I joined this forum just to post this so others can make informed decisions based on objective vs. biased opinions trolled across the web.

...I guess maybe now they'll be changing their forum names, lol. Or not. Just consider yourselves forwarned!


Shop your forum software elsewhere! Besides, if you're gonna pay anyway, go with Vbulletin if you expect a high traffic volume.

whoever you are
1) I DO NOT work for wowbb. I NEVER HAVE. I do not work for any of the software companies. I have NEVER been paid by any software company ever. Period.
2) I had (had) been a long time user and supporter of wowbb UNTIL the service started going down hill and new features were not added in a timely fashion. For my own personal forums I switched to WowUltra, which had all the features I was looking for. Sure I posted on the admin boards I frequent, but who cared. everyone posts about the software they are using at the time.
2.5) WowUltra and other offshoots are 100% NOT THE SAME AS the "wowbb". Are you listening - They are SEPARATE PROGRAMS, different owners, different programs.

3) Next - I also switched away from the hosting offered by wowbb to Data1 hosting. LET ME BE 100% CLEAR AGAIN SO YOU UNDERSTAND 100% - THEY ARE DIFFERENT COMPANIES AND COMPLETELY UNRELATED. That is why I switched. For the record I have had NO downtime NO issues and no problems since switching. I have experience the best customers support I have ever had with any hosting company to date

4) Finally - if you have a problem with wowbb or people associated with it - fine - JUST DONT MIX UP OTHER people or programs in your anger and venting. Also DO NOT include me. In fact please edit your post above and remove all the lies and incorrect info.

I hope you understand now the differences. I hope you also be way more careful in the future before you slander other people who have nothing to do with what you are talking about.

An apology would be the courteous thing to do.

__________________
The Biggest Boards | Political Disgust | JAMOOZA

I left WowBB also a couple days ago. Data 1 is in no way related to wowbb, owned by or even on the same servers. I started my own hosting company because of the problems with the wow servers and long ago moved all my sites from there. If the plug were to be pulled on Ultra tomorrow Data 1 wouldn't even flutter. I had Data 1 before I even knew Wow existed.

So in a as usual brave manner someone jumps my thread again blasting my product with a mask on. Not a problem, say what you will- the proof is in my customer base.

I would urge everyone not to fight and ignore this obvious and pointless ploy.

Jim.

__________________
We are not resellers.
Experienced shared & dedicated hosting

I do post here. I'm Mat from WowBB.

__________________



TheBiggestBoards - See where your forum ranks - Size Matters!

this is bouttime, a long time user of wowbb and experienced wowbb community member.

to wowbbsux:
i can fully understand your feelings towards wowbb and their service, you are not off the mark IMO. however you are seriously mistaken about wowultra and their hosting site data1systems.com, they are NOT affiliated with wowbb what so ever, in any way shape or form.

you have made inaccurate assumptions and assertions in lumping them together. it seems your understandable frustrations with wowbb has caused you to to look at wowultra with a jaundiced eye. you have not done proper research into ultra, what you have done is jump to a conclusion and failed to gather some facts.

wowultra is what may be termed a "fork" of the wowbb software and is owned and developed by Jim Hale as is their web hosting company Data1systems. they have no connection to wowbb which is owned and developed by Aycan Gulez. you are sullying and defamating wowultra and their hosting unjustly, you have no basis for the statements you have made regarding them, that is a fact. what you are is confused and upset, which is understandable. but please in the interest of fairness and honesty take a closer look at the situation, i promise you will find you are in error and you will feel badly about what you've said about them.

i collaborated closely with Jim on the data1systems site design and i am also an authorized distributor and theme designer for wowultra, i am telling you flat out i do not have any relationship with wowbb what so ever, i am no longer even a customer of theirs for many of the same reasons that have made you so upset with them. please take another look and then let us everybody know whether you realize you've made a mistake or not.

wowbb is an apple and wowultra is an orange, wowbb is going left and wowultra is going right and never does the twain meet.

i have full confidence that you would find wowultra to be everything you expected wowbb to be and more.

ask me anything you like, i will be glad to answer any questions you have in verifying the veracity of my statements and to allay any doubts that wowultra has zero to do with wowbb in any way.

Jim,

Per your own words, wowultra is a franchise of wowbb:
A few presale questions.... - WowUltra Pre-sales - WowUltra - WowUltra Forums

And for the record, in case you're unfamiliar with the legalities:

What is a Franchise?

WestLaw copy>>>
A franchise is a form of licensing arrangement whereby one party licenses another to use its business system and trademark. Franchisees typically pay to the franchisor an initial franchise fee and ongoing royalty payments throughout the franchise term...Franchise relationships are regulated under a variety of state laws, and many aspects are also regulated by federal law.

By this very nature, a relationship exists whether you like it or not. Paid for or not. How deeply, is another question, but to suggest therein lies zero relationship, is misleading and rather beneficial to your own site considering how Aycan, Mat, Marty, etc is handling wowbb support forums currently. Who's directly responsible, or what factors are leading to this are of no importance to me....though I bought most of them initially, empathetically. The bottom line is, if you ask me, there's almost a complete absence of accountability where customer service is concerned, to a point it's shocking....frightening to think this is a code of conduct for any business, anywhere. I've simply never seen anything like that.

There is also a significant amount of cross-pollination going on with the mods & frequent help-posters between ultra and wowbb to which I'm sure there's some excusable reason why, which I'll give you since it's really not that big an impact on my opinion.

You are correct in your assumption of my being upset, but I am not irrationale or posting here in "reaction" to those feelings. This was a direct response to questions about wow...be it ultra or wowbb, I jumped in, esp. given the glowy perfumey responses, from names I'm very familar with, carrying an air of less knowledge/experience/connection than I knew there to be...in my opinion.

And for the record, I am not alone! And you know it! There's countless customers just as upset as I am, some even more so. What truely gets me is the absolute lack of professionalism in the responses to customers who are angry and pleading for help...literally pleading, crying for help, to no avail.

But you know what, the great thing about the internet is businesses who treat customers so insultingly with such anguishing indifference and belligerance -seriously, have you read the boards?, no longer have this priviledge within the privacy of their office and phone/emails. That's what makes writing opinionated reviews worthwhile...knowing there's a way to help others looking for an unbiased opinion/personal-review of a company and it's services (franchised or not). If you went to a Taco Bell late one night, and saw mold on the meat, would you stop going to that location or stop going to taco-bell all together? When you gave your opinion to others, would you say "but I'm sure their product is good at all the other locations?" That's rarely ever the case in my experiences.

I understand your concern with what I wrote, but quite frankly, you are the one who has chosen to franchise a product from a company (man, llc, whichever) that has treated customers so badly. I am not the person you should be taking this up with, Aycan is -or whoever else at wowbb.

And Mat, as for you....here's one post with an opinion about you:
Need wowBB conversion

Possibly, you should be spending more time helping folks and learning HOW to help folks. My tendency has always been to feel badly for the over-worked underlings...you, my dear, I am almost speechless to address.

Right now there's about 5 of us all collaborating, emailing, outside the wow system, who've been frustrated as all heck trying to get anything accomplished. You inparticular have let 3 members I know of personally go MONTHS without handling their problem, only promising to get to it, and failing to produce results, to a frustrating point of tears! My sister-in-law included! Which is how I became involved in all this, I assumed she was exaggerating her frustrations. You don't respond, and when you rarely do, it's usually to ask questions to further your response time, so it seems. And you're very reactive to others.


As for the slander comment, here's some legal 101 for anyone in the forum industry not familiar with cyber defamation:

There are two types of defamation:
Slander is spoken, LIBEL is written, FYI.

While there are cases for cyber-libel, justifiably, there are also rock-solid defenses/rationales, 3 of which are:
1-truth...go to the forums, see for yourself
2-opinion...I specifically said before it was my opinion
3-"fair comment on a matter of public interest"...too entailed to get into here

...any ONE of which apply.

WowUltra is franchised/licensed from Wowbb/Aycan who has all but abandoned customers in need of help/solutions. And you know this is true, and you know the insane levels it has risen. What's to say he won't do that to you as a franchisee? What's to prevent what's happening at wowbb from crossing over to ultra? What's to say wowbb/Aycan won't at some point treat you (Ultra) the way he's handled HIS OWN wowbb product's customers, thereby affecting Ultra's customers. Maybe he will, maybe he won't, maybe he respects contracts about as much as he respects his customers? Either way, that's a risk in itself.

Franchising from Aycan connects you, period. Aycan is absolutely benefitting from that set-up. You may not have realized what you were saying, but the connection exists. Even if you didn't pay him a dime, the connection exists, he created it, he owns it. He may not own your company or website, but he created the core product that you've tweaked to get your own version.

Diana posting here as if she's some happy-bappy satified client without revealing she's also a customer support rep, doesn't give me a cozy-warm-fuzzy feeling of honesty....errr, uhhh being upfront, either.

I realize all this will likely not go over well with you, and many Ultra supporters will come here to defend you and rake me over the coals. Regardless, I sincerely hope you don't take any of this personal. I'm not a mean person. But I do believe in your response to me, you are directing your feelings in the wrong direction.


As for the hosting company, I do apologize if that is enfact a separate entity. Unfortunately, it is directly associated with your wow product, which is enough for me to question it. Maybe others won't, but I do.

to wowbbsux:

you have astutely seized upon the word "Franchise" to make a connection between wowbb and wowultra, however it is merely a semantic and superficial one. the choice of using the word "Franchise" was a poor one in that it does not accurately portray the arrangement by which the different forks of the software have come about and move forward into the future.

as you point out a franchise implies a continuing relationship between the franchiser and the franchisee in regards to mode and limitations of operations placed upon the franchisee by the franchiser. this is not the case, not for ultra or wowclassic or any other fork that may develop in the future. these are completely stand alone versions guided only by the said developer with absolutely no input, influence or control from or by wowbb.

what is actually the case is that the developers of the forks have licensed the fundamental base code that is wowbb to serve as a platform for their own unique version. i will recommend to Jim that he remove and drop the use of the word "franchise" as it only serves to confuse and misrepresent the situation.

please understand this was only a poor choice of words and that in fact any and all development of wowultra is totally free and unfettered from wowbb.

if you have any issues with the base code then please feel free to express them here, however any reference to the level of service and support offered by wowbb has nothing to do with wowultra and should not be expressed here but in a thread devoted to wowbb itself. this goes for wowultra, wowclassic and any other fork that may be in development.